Friday, September 29, 2023
HomeAttachmentsGrappleSub-Compact Grapple Roundup

Sub-Compact Grapple Roundup

In this article, we’ll discuss some of the ‘special needs’ a sub-compact tractor like Johnny has when considering a grapple, and evaluate a few different grapple options.

Grapple Challenges for Sub-Compact Tractors

First, most grapples are large and heavy. This is the biggest issue with grapples and sub-compact tractors. With lift capacities of under 1000 lbs (to full height), we simply cannot afford to devote 400 lbs of that to the grapple attachment itself. So, any grapple attachment which will be useful for a sub-compact tractor needs to be lightweight and built out of super-strong steel.

Another challenge we must deal with are the hydraulics needed for the grapple. Deere now offers a 3rd function kit for the 1-series that we recommend if you are a new purchaser. If you’re an existing 1-series owner, we strongly recommend a 3rd party option from Artilian. Kubota offers a 3rd function connector option for the BX line specifically for grapples, 4 in 1 buckets, etc. This is a very nice feature. We’ll not delve into the hydraulics discussion any further in this article. Perhaps this is a topic for a future article.

Your tractor will need some sort of quick attach bucket to use a grapple effectively. Kubota uses the standard SSQA (skid steer quick attach), Deere uses JDQA (John Deere Quick Attach), but most other brands do not include any type of quick attach bucket mounting system. Be sure to check your tractor for the loader bucket attachment mechanism, and follow-up with your dealer with questions. Even though your bucket may not be “quick attach”, there may be an upgrade available from the dealer.

For the rest of this article we will focus on grapples specifically designed for sub-compact tractors. Each brand listed has an option for either SSQA or JDQA. Additionally, each of these grapples is made in the USA! I’m not sure if the steel is US steel or not, so don’t push me too far, but at least they are constructed here in the states.

Precision Manufacturing Mini 322 Grapple Rake

Precision Manufacturing Mini 322 Grapple Rake

The Precision Manufacturing Mini 322 Grapple Rake is well suited to the compact and sub-compact tractor market. Precision’s double clamping model weighs in at 255 lbs. The single clamping model weighs just 241 lbs. One thing for sure is this grapple won’t rob you of vital lifting capacity!

The Mini 322 Grapple Rake is constructed of 1/4″ AR400 steel. There are a total of 7 tines on the rake spaced 9.5″ apart. I find this configuration lends itself well to sifting through dirt to collect roots and other debris. With an overall width of 57″, this grapple is just a little wider than Johnny’s standard 53″ bucket. The jaws of the Mini 322 opens to a height of 36″.

The price for the double clamping model, 322DBLSS, is $2245 after applying the TTWT10 coupon code for 10% off. The single clamping model, 322SGLSS, is priced at $2155 after the TTWT10 discount. While price is normally the deciding factor on whether you purchase a single clamp vs a double clamp grapple, for the $90 I’d recommend getting the double clamping model. Trust me when I say that you will be happy that you did.

Titan Attachments

Titan offers a 48″ Root Grapple. This grapple weighs more than double the weight of the rest of the grapples in this roundup. For that reason, I did not include it in the original version of this article. However, after it was mentioned in the comment section below, I decided it would be helpful to provide information on this grapple.

The positive aspect of this grapple is its price. $1,163 retail including shipping. It is easy to get 5% discount simply by signing up for email list. So, this grapple is by far the least expensive that we evaluate here. Unfortunately, that is where the positive news ends.

The other grapples in the roundup are around 200 lbs. This one adds an additional 250 lbs (450lbs total). At first, this doesn’t sound like a big deal. However, let’s do some calculations to see how much impact this really has to the tractor’s useful lift capacity.

The 1-series Deere (and other sub-compact tractors) will lift approximately 600 lbs to full height with the standard bucket. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more. The 53″ bucket weighs 112 lbs. Let’s round that down to 100 for calculation purposes. So, ~700 lbs total including bucket (or grapple).

So, with a 200 lb grapple, one would have a 400 lb lift capacity. With a 450 lb grapple, one would have 250 lb of available lift capacity. Overall a 38% reduction in lift capacity as compared to the rest of the grapples presented here.

This reduction in usable lift capacity is not acceptable to me, so this grapple will not be making an appearance on Johnny. This grapple might be useful on larger tractors, however, it is not a good fit for a sub-compact.

CT Attachments

CT Attachments is a small manufacturer located in Wisconsin. They specialize in grapples, snow plows and pushers, etc. They have a 50″ grapple made specifically for the JDQA system. This grapple weighs 195 lbs and has a lid which is approximately 2/3 of the width of the grapple. The lower tines point forward further than the EA grapple which should be good for material pickup. The shape of these lower tines indicates that this grapple is not for digging out roots, but rather for picking up large piles of material already on the top of the ground.

There are holes in the lower tines which could contain ‘close outs’ for smaller filtering for rocks, etc. CT can provide these ‘close outs’, or you can use 1/2″ all-thread, or 1/2″ steel rods.

The website states that this grapple is constructed with grade 80 steel.  I find this terminology hard to compare with the more formal ATSM name (AR400) specified by Precision Manufacturing and Artillian.  The best document I could find to describe this is here. It appears that ‘grade 80’ in this document refers to A656 steel. The chart shows a tensile strength of 90,000 psi, vs. AR400’s 177,000 psi. Quite a difference. Additionally, several other sources, show AR400 with a tensile strength of 200,000 psi or more. At only 1/4 thickness, I suspect this grapple will be strong enough to handle most sub-compact tractor tasks. However, I would be concerned if using it aggressively on larger tractors where much more force can be applied.

In addition to the 50″ Deere specific grapple, CT offers a 55″ version in both JDQA and SSQA versions. This grapple uses 5/16″ grade 80 (see above) steel for additional strength. This grapple weighs in at 300 lbs.

The 50″ grapple is priced at $1500 + shipping, and the 55″ is priced at $1625 + shipping.


Artillian offers a completely different type of grapple construction. Their grapple takes a modular approach, allowing the user many different configurations. Each of their grapple components mounts to the popular Artillian fork frame. The picture on the right shows the main grapple component, referred to as the “Clamp Section”. In this photo, it is mounted to an SSQA compatible fork frame. Customers can choose one, two or three clamp sections for their grapple, depending upon their needs and budget. Each clamp section contains its own hydraulic cylinder and weighs 90 lbs.  Artillian provides a hydraulic manifold to support multiple cylinders if the user chooses to have multiple clamp sections. The rake section (left) consists of the lower ‘rake’ tines only. No clamping mechanism. This section weighs 40 lbs, and is much more cost effective than the clamp section. Up to three ‘sections’ of any combination can be placed upon the fork frame providing at least 6 different useful configurations.

In addition to the flexibility when using these various configurations, there is another advantage which could prove quite useful for me. When not needed, these components can be stored individually, taking up much less overall storage space than the other options we’ve discussed.

On the negative side, the componetized approach adds a bit of weight to the most natural configuration (2 rakes plus one clamp) with this solution coming in at 243 lbs, with the optimal configuration (2 clamps, one rake) weighing in at 293lb. The plates are 3/8 thick AR400 steel on this grapple, making it by far the strongest and toughest built grapple in this roundup.   This explains the increased weight over the other solutions.

The Artillian is approved and tested for ‘below grade’ or digging operations as well.  With the module approach, you can remove all but one clamp or rake, and dig a narrow/small hole, trench, etc.  This would provide a nice stump removal solution for those of you who do not have a backhoe.

If starting from scratch, this grapple is by far the most expensive of those discussed in this article. However, when you purchase the grapple components, you ‘almost’ have a set of pallet forks already included. All you need to add are the forks themselves (~$220 when purchased with the fork frame).

ConfigurationFrameClamp(s)Rake(s)Total WeightTotal Price
(including discounts)
(Single Clamp)
(73 lbs)
(90 lbs)
-163 lbs$1544 + shipping
Single Clamp
Two Rakes
(73 lbs)
(90 lbs)
(80 lbs)
243 lbs$2182+ shipping
Two Clamps
One Rake
(73 lbs)
(180 lbs)
(40 lbs)
293 lbs$2822+ shipping

You can view our Artillian test grapple in action here:


There it is, the top 3 grapple choices that I know of at this point. Plus one choice that I would not recommend.

While the 3 recommended grapples are specifically made for sub-compact and small compact tractors, they are each built quite differently.   The Precision grapple has either 1 or 2 independent clamps, the CTA grapple has a 1/2 width single clamp, and the Artillian has 1,2, or 3 independent clamps.  The Artillian and CTA grapples have a ‘bed’ which can be used to carry items even without clamping, and also provide the ability to dig a bit deeper, while the Precision grapple is designed to rake up debris and clamp down on those uneven loads of brush.

So, in addition to the weight, price, etc, prospective buyers need to predict the types of projects they will encounter with their new grapple.  Will it be digging roots?  Will the loads be uniform (suiting a single clamp), or un-even where a second clamp would be helpful?

The Artillian solution is the strongest built grapple of the group with the 3/8″ AR400 steel.  The modular options alllow an ultra light weight (single clamp) solution which I would have attempted to use on the huge rock we took out earlier this summer. The ability to disassemble for winter storage is attractive as well.

The Precision Mini 322 grapple is quite impressive. Lighter-weight than a similarly configured Artillian setup, super-strong, and would do a great job of raking debris and sifting through the dirt for roots.

The CT Attachments grapple with its long bottom tines (rakes) would be a good fit for lots of the projects we have as well. However, I would be a bit concerned about the strength, as it is made out of lower quality steel.

My favorites are the Precision Mini-322 double-clamp if you like a short tine type grapple, and the Artillian if you like longer lower tines. Both of these grapples will be well suited for your subcompact, or small compact utility tractor!

Tim Marks
Tim Marks
Compact Tractor Lover. Rural Lifestyle Enthusiast. Tractor Time with Tim on YouTube. Married to Christy for over 31 years. We love showing tractors, attachments, maintenance, storage ideas, and our daily activities around our 10 acre property. We also do some contract tractor work, and significant amount of charity projects.


  1. Great article..

    I too want one but don’t really “need” one. But I ma sure if I had one, I’d be wondering why I didn’t get one sooner..

    Tough choices. Guess Id be leaning to towards the Artillian. Living 20 minutes from Worcester makes it even more attractive..

    Thanks again!

    • Yes, these are all good choices. I’ve been thinking about this for years actually, but digging into the details, it is still hard to choose. Each of these are very good options.

      • The biggest deterrent to me is the cost of the hydraulics. At nearly $700 to set up hydraulics to operate a grapple the total investment is close to or even higher than $2000. Titan makes a nice 48″ grapple. Very affordable. I think you can buy Titan forks and grapple bucket cheaper than the Artillan set up and not have to remove the forks from the frame to slide on the grapple sections. Artilan is too expensive and you have to slide each attachment on and off the fork frame.

        • The Titan Attachments grapple weighs 450 lbs!!! It still costs $1050.
          Assuming your loader will lift 800 lbs to full height (with the bucket), and this grapple weighs 300 lbs more than your bucket, you would be giving up 300 lbs of your 800 lb lift capacity. Are you really willing to do that to save $300-$500??? You would have to get a large frame 2 series to overcome that disadvantage, so it would cost almost $10,000 just to get back to what you could lift with a 1025R and one of the grapples discussed in this article. This is why I left it out. (Perhaps I should add it to the ’roundup’ so that these points would be discussed.)

          There are advantages and disadvantages to the Artillian system. I tried to cover them, but perhaps I should mention the ‘reconfiguration time/effort’.

          I am torn between the three grapples listed, and could see good reasons to buy each of them. However, the Titan is too much compromise in lift capacity for me.

          • Hi Tim, I just want to be sure I order the same equipment you brought through Artillian. You have the double clamp grapple w/3 rakes? or is it 2 rakes + something else.?
            Also what is the rear attachment you have for the suit case weights? I have the large JD ballast box and it gets annoying taking up too much room on the rear when manuvering.

          • Two clamps, one rake is what you need.
            The rear attachment is called a Heavy Hitch. There is a post on this site which describes the different models, and shows the discount code for 5% off.

        • You are right about the hydraulics. ..and you are right about the overall cost. Lots of money.
          You said ‘biggest deterrent’…well, the biggest deterrent to me is that I can accomplish almost everything with the forks and bucket that would be accomplished with the grapple. No doubt grapple would be faster, but $2000+ faster? Not yet sure about that!! So, we are definitely on the same page there.

          The Titan Attachments grapple weighs 450 lbs!!! It still costs $1050.
          Assuming your loader will lift 800 lbs to full height (with the bucket), and this grapple weighs 300 lbs more than your bucket, you would be giving up 300 lbs of your 800 lb lift capacity. Are you really willing to do that to save $300-$500??? You would have to get a large frame 2 series to overcome that disadvantage, so it would cost almost $10,000 just to get back to what you could lift with a 1025R and one of the grapples discussed in this article. This is why I left it out. (Perhaps I should add it to the ’roundup’ so that these points would be discussed.)

          There are advantages and disadvantages to the Artillian system. I tried to cover them, but perhaps I should mention the ‘reconfiguration time/effort’.

          I am torn between the three grapples listed, and could see good reasons to buy each of them. However, the Titan is too much compromise in lift capacity for me.

      • Tim. first time poster. I was just looking at the 1025R on the JD website. According to their online brochure, the 1025R is now available with a 3rd SCV for 2018. I did not delve in any further to see if a kit is available for retrofit. Keep up the good work! Love your videos; especially the service and upgrade ones. I just bought a 2018 3046R with factory cab, loader, 72D mower, backhoe and 4 in 1 bucket. Expect to take delivery on May 17th.

    • What do you think about the EA Compact Wicked Root attachment? It’s 50″ and weighs 274 pounds. It also has the longer lower legs than the one you reviewed above. At $1492 + $50 for JD mount, It comes in at less than the Artillian (I already have their forks) and it’s a dedicated attachment.

      • I have to say, I am a big fan of Ted, who does the videos of products at Everything Attachments. He does a great job of explaining their products along with suggestions on how to use them for the best results. He seems really passionate about providing quality products. Plus, being a tar heel from birth, I like that his company is located in a small town here in NC.

        • Thanks for your comment Ken. I decided to go with the Compact Tractor Attachments ( and couldn’t be happier. At only 194 pounds it’s one of the lightest and with the longer lower blades, it can go under objects which you’re trying to pick up. I have to disagree with Tim’s comment that it would not be good at digging out roots. The build quality is as good as the artillian and crating was perfect. Not a scratch on it. Jeff King will even do custom modifications for you if you want.

          • Pat, thanks for your comments.
            Let me clarify my digging out roots assessment. I’m sure it does a fine job digging out roots. I’m just saying that the shorter tines on the EA grapple would have a bit more leverage because they are short and closer to the loader arms (and tractor).

          • Hmmm, you may well be right Tim but, I was thinking in the exact opposite way. With the longer lower tines, I think I can slip them under the root and use the weight of the tractor to break them loose. Also, remembering your episode where you were moving the sidewalk, the longer tines should allow me to get further under the slab and raise it in a more horizontal position. Maybe we all need to meet somewhere and put all the grapples through their paces.

  2. Great points. I am really almost at ground zero because my forks are the removable screw-ons. They have worked for all of the tasks I have here, but can’t go to the next level of functionality because at least with the Artillian system it is the base needed to build up to the grapple even before the hydraulics. Lots of money for the one person finance committee to approve. But I see from Tim’s project videos the value those forks bring over what I have now and it is one step closer to the grapple should I ever be able to get one.

    • I have spoken with this vendor. I LOVE the creativity of this design. I think it is a WONDERFUL solution for a garden tractor. However, it is not a suitable solution for the 1-series.
      The quick hitch is not strong enough to handle what the 1-series can throw at it.
      Make sense?

    • I just got a response from them (Westendorf). It works off John Deere FEL without modification and costs $1213 dollars plus shipping. Which in my case is $150 dollars. It just attaches and works. Just tried my link to that I had posted on the first comment and it is broken so…humm….just use the: and look for the BrushCrusher section of their website. The one I was checking on is the BC3000. Thanks for all your Videos. I have learned a lot from them.

      • Assuming the price is really $1,213 plus shipping, and if it’ll go on the JD 1025

        1. It needs no hydraulics. So, the cheapest option? Easiest to install.

        2. Weight? 140 pounds.

        3. No digging (EverythingAttach idea is root plowing is handy)

        4. No base between the gripper arms to support smaller brush & debris.

        Although I don’t understand how the arms are independently controlled.

        • They are controlled by the loader boom. There is an extended piece of the BC-4200 which goes under the loader boom. As you curl the bucket, this bracket hits the underside of the loader boom, forcing it closed.

  3. I’ve got the Artillian setup on my 2305 and it rocks. Also the excellent support Artillian gives you if you should need it is second to none.

          • You’re smarter than I am. All I know is at If you click on the grapple-rack-grapple image to add to cart, it says $3,047.00

            It only itemizes the 2 grapples & rake. It may be they’re including all the other stuff, but it’s not shown.

            If you are correct, and I believe you are (looking at other costing pages), then maybe Artillian might show a more complete item list in the cart?

          • are you noticing that it shows $1000 shipping …until you enter your zip code? Goofy setup, I admit, but once I entered zip-code, it dropped the shipping to a more reasonable amount.

  4. Wow. I knew you were smarter than me. Crazy shopping cart. So, $2,200 or so, then add 3k rated frame, brush guard, hydraulics, etc. as needed. Which brings you up to roughly $3k (your results may vary based on choices since it is a modular system).

  5. Liked this segment. Yes its me again. Have entertained the grapple. Its lots to consider but weight isn’t my biggest concern. Don’t ever expect to use for excessive loads. How to use john after the storm in Florida will be my next adventure. Wish me luck we are hunking down. John will be put away for the storm in the brush tomorrow w/ attachments where there isn’t larger trees. I don’t trust the shed.

    • Oh my! Grab onto something and HANG ON!
      I was trying to illustrate in this article that weight IS very important. It doesn’t take too big of a log, concrete, etc to be 400lbs. If spending so much on an attachment, I wouldn’t want a couple hundred dollars to cut my lift potential by 40%.
      Anyway, none of that is important…when compared to this storm. Praying for you!

  6. I was considering the idea how much the loader has been moving and carrying stuff in a properly articulated position (lumber, tree branches, etc). The thinking would be picking up cut brush much easier and more controlled to a burn location. Yes I have distance and lots of area to clear to consider. Price along with the ability to grapple was my best consideration. So your article was good but my thought was not to consider the weight of the attachment which would reduce the weight capacity. The ability of the grapple was more important. This may my last window to use wifi for some time. Loosing shingles and a tornado destroyed a few buildings in my local address. Its not over yet, the worse is yet to come.

  7. I bought a TITAN based on previous experience with Titan. The implement is great for my needs. I use it for picking up logs, and brush. This is really great for picking up piles of brush. The weight of the implement was important to leave enough lifting power to lift debris.

  8. When you were on the Everything Attachments website, did you check out the third function hydraulic kits they sell. I believe that might be the solution for powering your grapple when the finance committee finally approves it.

    • I’m seeing here for me that the Brush crusher 4200 fits the bill for me for the ease of use or versatility and definitely price. It fits right up to the loader after dropping the bucket. What more could one ask for. The others seemed too complicated, pricey and I became too lost in the weight issue.

  9. I like that this unit uses the John Deere Quick Attach system, so you can easily switch from your bucket to this and back to the bucket with a minimum of fuss. But I’m not sure I like the idea that you lose the tilt feature. Sometimes I need that to reach further when I am dumping and to clear the sides of some high trailers or trucks. I would also like to have more forks to pick up smaller items.

    • I can see your point. Clearance issues could result with the front of the tractor as well with awkward larger and more difficult brush seeing that its pinned down by rotatating from the top. Its like a running back tucking a football into his side. I still like it. I did well with the bucket moving lumber and smaller stuff. I need it more for large clumps of brush I’ve cut down. Takes a good deal of work to drag the amount I end up cutting. That tends to take the most out of me and the most time.

  10. Going to find a dealer and hope for a demonstration. Contacting the company may get a future show, fair or convention that would allow for a more detailed and closer look in the operation of the unit.

      • Not too good. Couldn’t seem to get through 800 numbers. The chat worked well, but it was confusing due to 800 coverage and bad voicemail for those numbers.They are limited for dealers in south east. Spend limited amount of time at trade shows except for midwest. They do seem to be have troubles keeping up with orders on the BC 4200. The closest one to me in florida is NC. Although shipped to me is just over $1500. I really wanted to see one in action.

        • I saw one at the Farm Progress Show, and talked to a sales guy there. There is a thread about it on GreenTractorTalk…and the sales guy I talked with posted there. Name is Glen Coble. Maybe that will help?

          • I like the product but since I can’t see it in person its not likely going to happen. After looking at it more closely online and seeing its simplicity, I think its overpriced. Why should it sell for the same price that I got my 2048 cutter?? I’m thinking more like under a $1000 would be appropriate. Maybe I take the design, lay it out on cad and have someone cut the parts on a cnc laser machine.

  11. Tim, I wanted to ask if you had considered a 4-in-1 bucket instead of a grapple? I’m considering going that route for a few reasons. While not as good at picking up brush, the 4-in-1 bucket will allow me to grasp and pickup many of the same items. In addition, having used a 4-in-1 bucket on larger TLBs, I know the 4-in-1 bucket is more versatile for grading than the standard bucket, doing a much better job of back dragging. It can come in handy when you are trying to pick up dirt or other items close to a fence or other obstacle, because you are able to open the clamshell and drag the dirt into the bucket. For someone in your situation, it would mean you wouldn’t have to choose between which item to take to a job, the bucket, the grapple or both. One other thought. If you have teeth on your bucket, you have to remove them to have a smooth edge available for grading, whereas with the 4-in-1 bucket, you can open the clamshell and have a smooth edge that acts like a dozer blade. I like the W. R. Long Ultra Jaw 2 4-in-1 bucket. It is made for smaller tractors, the bucket is not much heavier than a standard bucket and they make it with or without teeth with our John Deere style quick connect. Of course, just like the grapple, you will have to add a third function valve to your loader. I will be interested in hearing your thoughts.

      • Or maybe I’ll contact the company and let them know I’ll stand at a local trade show here in my neck of the woods to promote the product if they send one with literature and billboards. ?

          • Now how are we suppose to know that you got a grapple sent to you if you haven’t discussed it? When I spoke of receiving a Brush crusher for myself I meant for the use to stand at fairs and trade shows to promote sales. Your response was “well they haven’t sent one to me yet.” Were you going to promote on a one to one sales pitch to prospective customers? I live in an area that is dominated by a JD dealer with 17 locations and one head salesman claims to see no need for them. Ideally a brush crusher across the south would be a great addition to a tractor. Weight would not be an issue. The south is the untapped market for the 4200. No one is logging on their properties and its the BRUSH which can be collected in huge bundles that becomes the reason for the need of a grapple. Lots of saplings and vines. No weight to the huge bundles and certainly with the right sales push a JDQA grapple without the extra hydraulics would be a good choice for many at the right price. But this will never happen for the BC 4200 with the attitude coming from the Big dealers that dominate the south and believe weight is an issue and a grapple isn’t something for the 1025R

          • Will, I do not understand your comment. I clearly updated the top of this article stating that that Artillian has recently provided us a grapple.
            Also, I have published two videos showing the Artillian has provided a grapple. In each video, I clearly state that they provided it to us. We did not pay for it.

            The tone of your email shows some frustration, but I’m having trouble understanding the source of the frustration. Did my previous reply to you (many months ago) rub you the wrong way?
            If so, I’m sorry. I had no intent to offend.

          • I have to agree with you Tim, I did not understand exactly what point Will was trying to make, but I agree he seems to be getting frustrated with John Deere dealers in the southern part of the country. I enjoyed your two grapple videos so far and look forward to the video you promised showing the actual use of the grapple. It was really nice of Artillian to give that grapple to you. I looked at their unit, but I think I can buy a standalone grapple and standalone forks from Everything Attachments here in NC for about the same price as the Artillian system with the grapple add-on. My JD 4105 has a true third function valve rather than a diverter so I am interested in seeing how you handle switching functions between the bucket tilt and the grapple grippers. I have to agree with Andrew, W.R. Long makes quality equipment. Now that you have a diverter and no longer have to purchase a grapple, maybe Christie will approve a 4n1 bucket for Johnny. I have used that style of bucket on other loaders and there is a lot you can do with it. For a small tractor like yours, one of the nicest features is being able to open the bucket to dump the load without having to roll the bucket over. That can be a real plus when trying to dump over something with tall sides. I like Long’s bucket because it is relatively light weight and opens really wide. Best wishes for the New Year and I look forward to seeing more of your entire family on TTWT.

          • Thanks for watching, Ken. It may be a week or more before we get the grapple action video(s) out. Too much family partying time!

          • I never saw any video links to the grapple. I believed I was keeping an eye on new information that was coming up on your website. Either way your update comment at the top presented me with the thought to make my comment by your statement of “as you likely know by now.” I was refering to how would we likely know by now? Certainly if you consider your lack of understanding towards my previous comment with your statement of believing that there is no way that they would send me a BC 4200 if they hadn’t sent one to you. I initially made the statement of recieving one for a laugh but with a serious possibility to consider through appropriate work and proper channels. In the end you had nothing to say about most of the comment content but to focus specifically on the possibilty of me not recieving a grapple if they haven’t sent one to you yet. My thought is what would make you any more qualified other than a website? Another thing is I had more to say in my most recent comment about the grapple issue in the south which would make them readily available at dealers but the only thing you commented on was your confusion to my comment and if you rubbed me the wrong way. In both instances I was looking for an honest open dicussion. I could easily see that you likely would stay away from comparing the price of a rotary cutter to the simplicity of a BC 4200 and why this grapple would be so expensive even it were absolutely true.

          • > I never saw any video links to the grapple. I believed I was keeping an eye on new information that was coming up on your website.

            I made an assumption here. Almost all viewers/commenters on this website are subscribers to our YouTube channel. We had produced two videos about the grapple, so the update saying “by now you probably know…” should probably have been stated as “if you have been keeping up with our YouTube channel you probably already know…” In any case, sorry about that.

            > My thought is what would make you any more qualified other than a website?

            I can see how you took my comment as arrogant. Having said that, I do feel like we are highly qualified to receive demo product. We have a wide viewership on YouTube, with over 11 million views at this point.
            We have documented/proof of our effectiveness as marketers. Additionally, I had already been in contact with the manufacturer, suggesting the idea that he allow me to demo one and publish on YouTube. Even with our large viewership, he was not interested. This is the logic behind my comment saying that since we had not received one, I didn’t think you probably would. Simple as that.

            Now, on the choice of BC 4200 vs. Grapple, I was initially very excited when I saw the BC-4200 for the reasons you mention. However, seeing the ‘independent side to side motion’ of the BC-4200, I became worried. The way the Deere loader is made, this is risky.
            My understanding is that the BC-4200 now offers a ‘bar’ between them which will keep the two sides in sync. If this works, I suspect it would resolve my concerns. I’d love to be able to try it, or see an expert try it.
            I do agree that the BC-4200 seems much simpler and less expensive than a grapple (any grapple).
            The biggest difference is the need for a 3rd function hydraulic valve.

            Now, typically, I end up going ‘first class’, even if the cost is more. That is likely what leads me to the grapple. After only a few hours, I’m thrilled with this decision.

            Anyway, I have no axe to grind with you or Westendorf. I’m sorry I’ve set you off.

          • I wasn’t aware of your youtube channel. I have watched most of your videos but didn’t know it was something to separately subscribe to. Good point on the bar to keep the lower arms from moving independently. I had no idea there was a revision on that grapple. Understanding the BC 4200 and how it functions I can easily say, “what on earth were they thinking.”

          • > I wasn’t aware of your youtube channel. I have watched most of your videos but didn’t know it was something to separately subscribe to.

            Makes sense. I only link to a few of our videos from this website. We just don’t have the time to write an article with every video. So, from here, you’ve probably only been exposed to 25-50 of our videos.
            Since you have a gmail account, you can easily subscribe to our youtube channel here:
            After subscribing, there is a little ‘bell’ beside the subscribe button. If you click that, you will get notified every time with post a video.

            We post new videos twice per week. Tue 3pm Eastern Time ,and Friday 3pm Eastern Time.
            Using the link above, you can look through our upload history, as well as look at specific playlists of videos we have created (specific projects, themes, etc).
            We have ~250 videos at this time, with another coming yet this afternoon.

            I hope this is helpful…enjoy!

  12. Tim, a company I have been in contact with for a 4-in-1 bucket for my Kubota is W.R. Long. They also have 3rd function kits for nearly every tractor or can piece one together. And they make buckets, grapples etc… out of their own shop. But build the 4-in-1 bucket a little different than most builders. And the open cylinders are better protected and have a better looking hinge point. Don’t forget W.R Long for bucket, grapple needs.

  13. Hi Tim.
    Great videos, happy family and Johnny.
    I would like to buy a 2018 John Deere 1025 Flb.
    My problem is this. If I add any thing to this TRACTOR, being lights, or a grapple, and tap into the hydraulics, and it is not a Deere part number or implement, my warranty on this new tractor is null and void. No aftermarket of any kind. This came from the dealer and it came from deere.I hope you and everyone else doing this all these mods don’t ever need a warranty fix. Check it out and let me know what you find out. You have my email address.
    Thanks and God Bless.

    • Doesn’t JD know that owners are going to modify the tractor to fit the needs of the operator? I think JD is just trying to get you to buy JD parts only for extravagant outrageous prices. If they void the warranty for using cheaper, yet better implements, then MAYBE JD ISN’T AS GOOD AS THEY SAY. Depending how long your warranty is good for. Let it run out then modify the machine as you wish. Or trade it in on a different machine that will allow the modifications you want without violating the warranty. I have a Kubota and they didn’t say a word about anything voiding the warranty. Hope you find your needed answer.

    • I’m sorry, I don’t believe that to be the case.
      There are thousands of these tractors out there. We don’t hear many complaints about warranty service.
      Of course, if you blew up the fuse box or other electrical parts by hard-wiring a faulty light, I would suspect you would find warranty issues. However, if you have an issue with your air cleaner bracket, they will not reject it because you installed accessory lighting. Make sense?
      Maybe you should find another dealer?

  14. I agree Tim. If I buy a grapple from third party, I can’t imagine it affecting my warranty unless there is something about the grapple that adversely affects some other part of the tractor. My problem with John Deere warranties is how they decide what is or isn’t covered. I bought my 4105 tractor used. It came with a John Deere backhoe and loader. The previous owner had basically left it parked the entire time he owned it, so it had been manufactured over a year ago but it only had 15 hours on the hour meter and looked brand new. I had a problem with the seals on the backhoe stabilizer cylinders. Both of them developed leaks, perhaps because of not being used for so long. Even though the tractor had very low hours, as it was sold over a year ago, JD would not cover the seals under the warranty.

  15. I am new to you site and I am very impressed. After watching the video above on the Westendorf BC4200, I noticed at time frame 1:34 in the video that the lower arm rubbed a large area away into the bottom of the Loader Arm. I personally don’t like the idea of using the Loader Arm as a reaction device. As much pressure that is seen in that area in normal bucket operation it could be a future area for cracking. Keep up the good work.

    • I think you have identified the weak point of the BC4200 solution. Taking your comment one step further, that portion of the loader arm is not reinforced. It is not expecting force to be directly applied to it. I’m afraid it will be crushed.

  16. Tim, I decided to buy a grapple from Carolina Attachments in Thomasville, NC. They have a light weight grapple suitable for my 40 HP John Deere for right around $1000, much less than most of the other grapples on the market. It has worked well so far. I have the John Deere third function valve on my tractor, so plumbing was no problem, though I did have to relocate the mount on the third function connections to avoid possibly putting the couplings in a bind. I think the grapple itself is pretty heavy duty to be listed as their economy root grapple. You did not happen to mention their grapples in your initial rundown, which I realize was not meant to be a comprehensive list. I wanted to mention this option in case any of your other readers are researching grapples. I had one minor problem. The clips on the pins for the cylinders that control the movable arms had a tendency to pop off. However, I found a better clip at Tractor Supply that works great and if you do lose a pin, they also have replacement pins. As I said, a minor problem that was easily fixed.

  17. Hello Tim,
    Love your site and I find it very informative. Just got my new 1025r with fel, backhoe, forks and ballast box delivered on Friday. Gotta say I can’t stop going into the garage to look at it. A little off topic. I noticed you have a pallet rack in your building for your attachments. How deep is the rack and do you find that to be the right depth. Thanks.

  18. Hi Tim,
    I hope this the correct place to put this comment/question. In April 2018 I took delivery of a JD 1025r. I am downsizing from a Kubota B3200. I must say, for when I need, the 1025r is perfect. I use it for mowing, light loader work, snow removal and, hopefully soon, grapple work. I have seen your videos on the Artillian grapple which can be added to the pallet fork frame. It seems like a great option. I do have bucket forks that I want to replace so it should work for me.I talked with Tom at Attilian and he was very helpful. I am heading to their factory tomorrow (I am 1.5 hrs away) to pick up the pallet frame and forks. I will follow up in the spring with the grapple. I do remember a video you did for the third function valve installation. For the life of me I cannot find it now.
    One quick question…I would like to remove the mower’s mechanical lift frame for the winter. Have you done this and do you have a video that shows what needs to be done to remove the mechanical lift frame. From what I have heard, it is not difficult.
    Your site is a tremendous asset to the JD 1 series community and I applaud you for your efforts.


  19. Hi Jim,
    I have removed my Mower frame several times. I’m assuming (a very dangerous thing, incidentally) you have the quick disconnect deck. Start by dropping the frame as low as you can and remove the driveshaft. Pull the cone shaped release toward the driveshaft and it should slide right off. There are four attachment points two front and two rear. Remove all the spring pins and then, remove the pivot pins in the rear and allow the frame to rest on the ground. Then remove the front pins and lower everything to the ground and slide it out. Where the front pins mount there is a clevis attached to what looks like an elongated eye bolt. You need to push these up and rotate them so you can remove the. Don’t screw the clevis up or down while you are doing this or you will have to re-level your deck when you reinstall everything. I tape mine and put them back on the frame with the pivots and spring pins. Now is a good time to grease those two impossible to get at engine driveshaft fitting that Tim recently did an excellent video on. Because it requires getting down on the ground several times to do this, I have made a couple of thing that significantly make this chore easier for me. I made four ramps out of 2 x 4’s laid flat and crisscrossed. Mine are three boards high giving me an extra 4 1/2 inches of clearance when I get under there. I purchased the Harbor freight hydraulic cart and slide it under the tractor to drop the frame onto. Sure makes it easier to do the job. The cart is really great to lift the fuel can up to the filler neck and I use one of the inexpensive battery powered pumps to fill the tank.
    Hope this helps.

  20. Pat,

    Yes, it helps very much. Thank you for your detailed explanation. By the way, I do have the quick attach mower system, and I love it.
    I just got back from picking up my pallet forks and frame from Artillian. They are a great company to deal with and, initially, I am impressed with the quality of the frame and forks. As I mentioned, I am planning on getting the grapple sections to fit on the frame some time next spring.
    Thanks again for your help.

  21. Hi, Tim. I know it’s a little off subject by I just bought a diverter valve kit from and it has a really nice handle replacement with a built in trigger for the 3rd valve and it was half the cost of every other kits I have found. Plus I’ve been looking at the root grapple from only 258lbs total. and 1 third the price of artillain. Still trying to find out if it has a JDQA attachment though. Love your you tube videos.

  22. Hi Tim, I look forward every week to your posts! I use a John Deere 4300 with a 65 inch snowblower (Mid PTO powered) to clear three miles of road to our cabin in Glacier National Park.The snow is too deep for any type of plow. Just got a Curtis Cab last year-I love it! It’s well built. I stayed toasty warm in 35 below weather this winter. I put the cab on myself, it wasn’t too difficult for an average mechanic type. I only needed my wife’s help twice!

  23. No, we live in the Northwest corner of Montana. Our park is Glacier National Park and the Canadian’s which adjoins ours is Waterton Park. We are 20 miles from the border. If you guys ever get out this way, please let me know and we will give you the cook’s tour.

  24. We would love that! We have been to Glacier and Waterton. I had no idea that anyone lived inside Glacier National Park.

  25. We live near Polebridge. It’s 40 miles up a dirt road on the Northwest corner of the park. We are actually in between Glacier National Park and the Flathead National Forest. There are about 40 year round residents. (close to Bowman Lake and Kintla Lake.) It goes crazy in the summer!

  26. Tim,
    I just bought a new 1025R and had the new JD third function valve installed. This is apparently a very new release for the 1025R and it includes a replacement joystick knob with the third function switch built in. The pair of additional hydraulic connectors is mounted out of the way on the right side of the tractor frame. I’ve also ordered a Precision Manufacturing Mini Add-A-Grapple
    This unit adds the grapple to the bucket and only adds 125 pounds of additional weight. The grapple can be detached and only a support bar stays on the bucket and won’t get in the way for other bucket uses. For the type of work I’ll be doing with it I didn’t want the open bottom of the other grapples. This keeps everything you pick up contained in the bucket.
    I also got a Heavy Hitch Toothbar and I think the combination will be great. I live about 80 miles from their factory so I ordered it and picked it up there. I used your discount code and spent some time talking to Greg, the owner. A great guy and he understands how the small tractor user thinks.
    You’re doing a very good service with your videos. I’ve learned more from them than from the dealer. Keep up the good work

  27. Hey Tim, I really enjoy your videos/articles! I haven’t heard much mention of the Frontier grapple. It is the AV20(F) model. I believe it only weighs about 160 lbs so it leaves a lot of room for lifting. There’s not a whole lot of videos other than the ones from John Deere ( I’m considering getting a grapple on my 1025r for our yard full of trees and our hunting land up here in northern Minnesota. Just wondering if you have heard anything good or bad about this one.
    Thanks for keeping your videos clean and loving the Lord!

  28. Hi, Tim. With your adoption of additional grapples since 2017, are you going to update this blog? Do you have a different recommendation for 2 series vs 1 series, now that you’ve been working with Johnny2 for a while?

      • Hi Tim,

        First, thanks for all the excellent advice and videos. It’s been extremely helpful as I build out my tractor arsenal. I have the same jest ion as Scott. Would love your current thoughts on grapples.

  29. I recently purchased a LandPride Grapple for my Massey Ferguson GC1723e. I am still awaiting my 3rd function kit from Massey. Do you have any experience with the Landpride? Mine is the SGC0554. I considered the Artilian because of its versatility but my dealer said they could not get one. If love to hear some honest thoughts and see it considered within a comparison. I also purchased a box blade that can front mount on my ssqa, or 3pt mount. It has proven extremely handy around my property.

    • Not sure why you would seek my opinion AFTER you purchased. …equally unsure why you would only consider attachments sold by one particular dealer. Oh well.
      Anyway, I’m not impressed with the land pride grapple. Under-built. It will be fine if you are careful with it.

      • Obviously he hasn’t tried the grapple out since he doesn’t have the third function installed yet. And I’m sure everybody “except for you” second guesses himself sometimes as to whether or not they made the right decision. Also his tractor is at the dealer getting the third function valve installed and sometimes it’s a whole lot more convenient to have an implement delivered and installed at the dealership so that’s probably why he went ahead and ordered a land pride grapple through the dealership. And finally I’m not sure why you even answered his question because you didn’t give a definitive answer at all! You’re stupid answer was “I’m not impressed. Under-built” did you take into consideration the type and quality of high tensile metal that is used in the land pride grapple? Weight is a huge factor when you’re mounting it on a sub compact tractor and the land pride is one of the lightest grapples out there which in my opinion would go perfectly with his tractor. It probably wouldn’t be the right thing to put on a 40 hp tractor but I wouldn’t want a 500 pound grapple hanging off the front of my little 23 hp tractor, you wouldn’t be able to pick anything up! There are hundreds of thousands of those grapples sold and installed all over the country and if you do any research there’s very little complaints about them on any of the Forums. In my opinion he made a good choice .

        • While Tim certainly doesn’t need my help. if you would go and watch many of his videos, you’ll see that he has addressed all the things you speak of and more. Personally, I do not consider the statement “I’m not impressed. Under-built” to be stupid. Nick asked the question and Tim gave his honest reply. I also purchased a grapple for my 1025R and, although I own the Artillian forks, I chose a different make for my grapple. I did however, apply Tim’s excellent evaluation method in making my decision. I also looked at the Land Pride grapple and if I was asked to give my opinion, I’d use the same words as Tim. Incidentally, I purchased my grapple from Compact Tractor Attachments.

  30. Tim, I have the independent mower lift system on my 1025r. The system allows me to control my mower deck and all other hydraulic components independent from each other Can I use the mower deck system for a grapple?

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